The Trouble with Straight Guys
With a very rigid idea of what sexuality should be, American men are taught to be disgusted by even the slightest thought of two men engaging in any sort of sexual activity. The effect this indoctrination has on men usually manifests into self-hate for gay men and absolute homophobia for straight men, because if you’re told something long and hard enough, it becomes truth. But as the culture continues to shift and “gay” becomes less demonized by society, straight men are slowly realizing that gay guys can make okay friends, and gay men are realizing that not every straight man are repulsed by them. And with this epiphany, comes another set of problems.
Like many gay men, I grew up with mostly female friends as other guys, not having dealt with my own sexuality, freaked me out and made me feel unlike them. So when I did give up the ghost and identified gay, my shift came to befriending other gay men to share collective experience, and get a sense of male bonding that I had never gotten in my youth. As I navigated through this transition, and dealt with my own masculinity (which was in opposition to the nelly queen I had been told I must be) I began to see the complicated balance that can be the straight guy/gay guy relationship.
As unfortunate as is it that straight men are taught to abhor the sissy, it is equally unfortunate that there is a sense of bragging rights to bagging a straight guy, which has also helped pushed away the fact that yes… gay guys and straight guys can be friends. When I used to hear gay me discuss their attempts and/or successes with hooking up with a guy that identified as straight, my immediate thought was… well, all you’ve really done is hooked up with a gay guy that hasn’t dealt with it yet. And while I think that is sometimes, or maybe mostly the case, I realize now that it’s not a hard and fast rule, and only serves to distance ourselves from one another more.
As gay men, it’s hard to see where the straight man is coming from because we ourselves put so much on their interest in friendship. Why on earth would a straight guy want to hang out with a gay guy? We act like the most ignorant straight homophobe when we jump to the conclusion that his straight label is nothing more than a figment of his closet, and his interest in us MUST be sexual. How on earth are we to form positive “normal” friendships with straight guys if we ourselves challenge their sexuality or even worse… try to get some? Because straight guys (real straight guys) don’t like being hit on by men. At all. It’s not the same when we have a woman into us as again, men are taught very very early to be absolutely repulsed by dude on dude action. We can’t change that, but we are in control of our own actions.
So why do we do this? Why must we attack the overly friendly straight guy that just wants another buddy? Well, after we have traveled our own path of self-hate, there is a sense of pride with men that got past all of that and said, “Yeah, I’m gay.” It’s a profound emotional breakthrough that we as out gay men have dealt with an overcome and therefore, have a sense that we “get” things a little more than our brothers and sisters that haven’t quite gotten there yet. So we meet a guy that says he’s straight, yet inexplicably wants to hang out so we say to ourselves, “here’s a great story I can tell the boys…” (Men, despite their sexual preference love a conquest. It’s just how we’re built.)
When I was younger I fell hard for a straight boy I was very close to. This yearning for something that my straight friend had no intention of giving into unquestionably put emotional damage on our friendship and even just myself. I would question his actions and tortuously ponder any glimpse of remote intimacy we had as a sign that yes, he felt like I did. Well… he didn’t. He never did, and never was going to. I thankfully never pushed the envelope too much and we have remained friends (I got over my futile crush) but many gay men do not restrain themselves, and damage friendships that could have been. And what kind of sign does that send to the straight guy? Don’t try to be friends with a gay guy, they’ll just try to sleep with you and get weird.
As I became more comfortable with myself and masculinity, I simultaneously fell in with a group of straight guys and formed a pseudo-fraternity that involved all-guy weekends camping, away from woman and society, and where sexuality was completely put on hold. As it evolved, and I was comfortable enough to be who I was without injecting my sexuality into the situation, something dynamic happened… I experienced male bonding that didn’t involve any aspect of sex. It became very clear that straight men do have a magical bond with each other that lets them relax a bit and be who they are with each other. Without women around whom they feel they need to impress or prove their masculinity with, these guys just chilled out. And what really cracked me up, was their interest in getting very very drunk and dancing. Just like us! Without woman around, they were open enough to be free from the shackles that our sexual rigidity forces them to. And that helped me become one of them, and not just “the gay guy.”
This is not to say that things haven’t happened to me that got a little sticky with “straight boys.” Yes I too have had a curious guy come onto me, and as I mature I realize that there is weight and responsibility that comes with another man opening up to you in this way as it is most likely their first time. I have run the gamut from accusing these guys of being gay, to just being a sounding board for them to express themselves. And as I become more centered myself, I realize the leap that many of these guys are taking with me, and respect that. But another major hurtle we as gay men need to get past, is realize that a little same-sex attraction isn’t necessarily a lay-over to gay-town. It can, despite a lifetime of being told to hate, be just like a girl that’s interested in making out with another girl sometime, which is more socially accepted. But given what we’ve been told, it’s hard to wrap our heads around that for gay and straight men alike. But I’ve hooked up with guys that have since gotten married and had children, and at this point find nothing wrong with that. Am I supposed to question their sexuality for the rest of their lives when it seems they have made up their own minds for themselves? How is that fair? And who are we to make those rulings just because we successfully, and enthusiastically, got our same-sex on? Does it mean we know who they are more than they do?
There is an obvious sense of brotherhood that resides in a group of male gay friends, and the same goes for a group of straight men. As the views on sexuality continue to shift culturally, maybe we will realize that these groups don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Sure there are things I can do with my gay buddies I can’t with my straight, and I suppose vice versa, but those are barriers that we, as gay men, need to help slowly break down. We’d come further faster if we helped to change what straight men think of us as men and as friends… versus us thinking of them as fresh meat.
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Comments
I agree, I have loads of straight guy friends who trust me and I would never want to injure that by trying to hook up with them. My policy on it is if it should happen I will not have been the one to initialize that moment, I will partake of that moment but it won't have been my idea and rest assured that I will take every step to make sure they really want to do it before it happens. Straight men are really somewhat fragile when it comes to male friends because of social conditioning (Your my best friend in the world and you just lost your mother to cancer soo let me shake your hand and pat you on the shoulder cause straight guys don't hug one another) this may seem like an over dramatization but I have actually seen this kind behavior at funerals, how horrible to be ripped apart inside and not be able to release that pain by falling apart and crying till it hurts with your friends and family who want to comfort you all because society says, real men don't cry or show emotion.
We as men who have embraced ourselves completely need to show compassion for our straight brothers who are still trapped in that world where they are not complete and stop pursuing them like our next lay. We have the ability to see things from both sides of the fence because of who we are. We can help our straight brothers be free from the old tired belief that a real man doesn't cry or show emotion and we can do that without bedding them down and confusing the hell out of them even more than they already are.
Many men that have hidden desires, and are possibly in the closet are very homophobic too!
Another great piece. Who writes these?
I haven't really experienced a sexual experience with a straight friend, beyond some harmless kissing, so I can't speak to much of this. But one thing that really resonates for me is the mention of bragging rights that goes on between gay men regarding doing a straight guy, or just the plain ogling that goes on regarding straight guys. I don't think I am a prude about checking guys out, gay or straight, but I do notice a lot of what seems like real objectification of men, and it sort of creeps me out. Like, "I would never want to have a conversation with you or anything, but I would sure like to suck your straight cock" or something like that. Fantasy is fantasy and I don't begrudge anyone that, but I find it dishonest and discouraging, this sort of huge gap between gay and straight men. I often wonder if that is because we are all "hunters" (another example of assumed cultural male baggage?) but with different orientations? Does it really have to be this way? One thing I do know, the rifts that separate male and female, gay and straight, will only decrease when all parties involved step up to the plate and open up to one another, instead of using one another for whatever strokes their (usually male) ego, i.e., gays used as whipping boys, and straights used as pieces of meat.
Great work; I really appreciate this.
It is the ultimate conquest for gay men to claim they had sex with a straight man!
Then they feel they have bragging rights if they succeeded in the conquest.
mmmmmm remindes me of boisterious Quotes Cowardly Lion Wizard of OZ
"I *do* believe , I *do* believe. I do, I do, I do, I *do* believe , I *do* believe I do, I do, I do"!
"Shucks, folks, I'm speechless. Ha Ha! "
"I'm afraid there's no denyin' / I'm just a dandy-lion / A fate I don't deserve / I'm sure I could show my prowess / Be a lion, not a mouse / If I only had the nerve."
(IF HE ONLY KNEW THEN WHAT HE KNOWS NOW LOL)
And a great reply ... very well put! What especially resonated w/ me was the part about gay men objectifying other men (straight or gay) the same as so many straight men objectify women. Men will be men, of course, but they only kill their own souls by turning the "I-Thou" relationship into "I-It." (Note: the allusion is to Martin Buber's great book,"I And Thou," which really nails down the whole topic.)
What a refreshing article!!! We do need more education and dialogue. For many men, straight and gay, is as if the Kinsley Studies never happened. Very few people are only gay or straight. There are a great number of men that fall somewhere in the middle towards one side of the scale or the other, and unless we know them well, our judgments are only that: judgments. We all need to be aware of what we have internalized. The author of this wonderful article mentions self-hate, acting out, all products very often, of internalized homophobia. YES, gay men have internalized the homophobia of our society and it's acted out all over the place: NO FEMS, STRAIGHT ACTING, all of these point to it. In any event, glad this type of dialogue is out for us to look at and consider. Thumbs up to whoever wrote it!
Two of my closest and longest-standing friendships have been with straight men. The first I met in seventh grade. I was attracted to his intellectual brilliance, but physically he was not my type at all. We developed a close friendship in which our other friends believed we could read each other's thoughts. Whenever we get together, even after years apart, it seems we enter a timeless space where we find ourselves completely at home and back to that relaxed familiarity. We are truly brothers in Spirit.
My other friend is also brilliant, a professor of mathematical logic with degrees from both Harvard and Yale, who has taught at Cal Tech, Dartmouth, and currently teaches at a university in N. California. We met when he took a Sanskrit class from me, but he initiated a friendship with me that has lasted beyond the bounds of the class. He was very much my type physically, unlike my other straight friend, but I viewed him as off limits.
That is, I did until he complained to me that he had hoped we could become closer. I told him I was prepared to get as close as he wanted. I confessed that I found him extremely attractive, and at this he expressed delight and surprise. He asked to join me at some gay events, and he told me he would think about how close he wanted us to become. Prior to this we often talked about our relationships, about his women lovers and about my men. Ultimately, he decided being platonic friends was most appropriate for how he felt about me, and that felt just right to me, too.
Occasionally I've encountered straight men who flirt. I believe they enjoy the attention, and I know they appreciate having a male friend with whom they can talk about relationships without feeling they are competing.
The fact is homophobia hurts both gay and non-gay men because it cripples mens' deep need to experience and express affection with other men. Gay men need the LOVE of men, perhaps, more than they need their sex. When the two occur together, great, but sex without the love feels empty and unfulfilling, while love even without sex always nurtures me.
your observation and statement of men needing and appreciating male friends whom they can talk to and confide in, is so accurate. It is great to see it in print. I wish there was a better way to get these expressions out into the main stream media. I always talk about the things that matter most, and when real life issues are brought to the table, with any man, the reaction is the same. It is always received positively and almost always open the flood gates to a conversation that "they" have been dying to participate in. Men,gay or straight, are so much more complicated then THEY will ever want to admit ;)
I completely agree with EVERYTHING thats been said. All men, gay and straight, must take responsibility for what they say and do with themselves and each other, always giving serious consideration to what we want to perpetuate. All men, gay men in particular, definitely profit and flourish more as human beings from giving and receiving human love, than we do from merely giving and receiving sex without any soul sustaining human substance included. This has to be perpetuated one person at a time, and one good way to do that is to practice a priceless human principle valued and perpetuated by Ghandi: " BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE! " .
Well done. As a bisexual man who sees a lot on both sides, I can definitely attest to the fact that most people are neither completely straight or gay. Sure, everyone has their preferences but there's almost always something appealing on the opposite side of the fence in ways that you didn't expect. Not everyone acts on it but it's really society that tells us we need to make a choice. A lot of people have a hard time understanding those that can truly enjoy both sexes. You can't compare the two as you get different things from each. After that, you can start to check off your preferences.
Well said sfboy4u. I don't self identify as bisexual but I respect those that do and their right to do so, because I know that how I treat other people is always a reflection of how I feel about myself, and I also believe that when we harm or seek to harm others, we have chosen that fate for ourselves.
It's been a real eye-opening experience to read all these contributions to a rich and complex topic. One of the things I heard was that if we want to be accepted for who we are, we will accept others for who they are. That means that we will not try to turn guys into what we want but accept with gratitude who they are.
Men have often been invited to see ourselves as hunters. We've been that for thousands of years just in order to survive. We want what we think we need to survive. At some point in our lives I think our culture tries to convinced us that above all else we need sex to survive For gay men that means a particular kind of sex i.e. with men. What all of this writing is about is urging us not to see ourselves primarily as seducers but as friends who see other men - gay and straight - as they are, as people we get to know rather than approach with preconceived ideas of what we want from them. That goes for gay as well as stright men. Otherwise we're just a bunch of narcisists, only loving reflections of ourselves. The trouble is not with straight guys....or gay for that matter. It's with us.
Has anyone read Androphilia by Malebranche (Donovan)? I recommend it. It is about how claiming our real masculinity-our place in the world of all men, not just demanding our human rights, is what is going to save us by making us a real part of society, not just tolerated. Bravo, Cyrus, and to all the men above, for showing such deep respect for ourselves and for all men.
I've had a few straight male friends who, because of my size and strength, thoroughly enjoyed giving in to the part of themselves that longed for someone bigger and stronger to simply just hold them. One of these was a particularly smaller guy, I think he was about 5'6", who, whenever I visited the house he shared with a straight girl, a gay fuck-buddy of mine and another housemate who I never got to know very well, would gleefully jump up on my lap and stay there. He had already been through his "hmmmm...maybe I would enjoy a bit of man on man" with my gay friend, who had been his friend for many years, so was quite secure in his heterosexuality. He just liked being able to cuddle up on my lap and be held and petted. I could tell just how rough his week or so had been by how much he enjoyed the physical reassurance.
Another straight friend was this big handsome wonderful guy who, on the other physical end of the spectrum from the smaller guy seeking that sense of protection/comfort, also enjoyed the physical contact of hugs and whatnot from another guy he perceived to be bigger and stronger than himself.
In my experience, most straight guys are so busy pretending or believing that they must be impervious, untouchable, invulnerable that this kind of release of attempted domination of other males in the vicinity just isn't possible. And that's a shame.
I never hit on these guys. I don't like sex with virgins. It's awkward and/or boring as straight boys tend to just lay there and have stuff done TO them while they pretend they aren't really involved, they aren't doing anything TO me, so I'm the gay one, not them.
But, I, at the time, was completely secure in my own presence. And I like cuddling. It's fun. And even a straight boy can do that.
Just wondering if anyone out there can tell me which category I fall under. I am a bottom that loves being fucked by a dominant top. But there is no emotions involved. What I mean is that I dont have the kind of feelings of attraction I may have for a woman. It's just the sex. So am I gay or straight?
Julius Caesar boasted that he was every woman's man and every man's woman. You are who you are; enjoy it!
Congratulations 9inch, your a human being and you belong with the rest of us. Sex without emotion is simply that, sex. It is a physical release that we all need from time to time and we all have sex that we like and sex that we don't but it really doesn't identify us one way or the other. What puts you straight or gay or bi is your deeper yearning for that person not just the sex. I identify as gay because i feel no attraction to woman apart from friendship, all of my yearning for a partner in my life is for a man. I had a girlfriend once and just didn't feel for her the way I do for men. Everything about a man consumes me hence I am gay. It sounds to me like you enjoy the sensation of being fucked and controlled but beyond that you are still a straight guy who likes the stinky pinky. Whatever you do, don't stress yourself about it. Enjoy the sex you enjoy and love the people you love and you will be fine and if you must have a label for yourself let it read HUMAN BEING.
Lots of gay guys feel no emotion other than to simply get oneself off or attract kids with candy. Emotions involving actually knowing the person who is being fucked are rare.
Maybe not so rare, but, when they are caring emotions, they are precious.
The labels gay and straight are, after all is said and done, just labels. Couldn't we just agree that men (and women too, of course) are sexual beings? I understand the struggle with internalized homophobia that makes men cling with pride to their gay self-identification, but let's cut us all a little slack.
Great article, thanks!
There is a book, "The Future of Love", that globally covers all kinds of intimate relationships and how in our human consciousness, we are evolving away from the black-and-white views of not too long ago.
This discussion fits perfectly into where we all, gay-straight-or otherwise, ought to be heading.
We have to remember that men view sex differently than women. That's a gross generalization, but not without some truth to it. The point is that most men can have sex without any emotional ties, gay or straight. So, some straight guys don't have a problem with getting a blow job from a gay man and some gay men don't have a problem giving one to a straight guy. Further, we often, maybe never, have much control over who we want. And, frankly, many younger men don't have a lot of problem with getting sex from anyone willing to give it. So, this business of being a man can lead to problems with straight guys who would be offended by a come-on from a gay friend.
There is a added aspect to this of having what we "can't" have. It's part of the sex "game" with men in general. This could be class dfferences, racial differences, or what's meant for a woman.
I see this gay man/straight man sex issue as one that should be handled with a lot of sensibility and concern not to be offensive to another person. But, I surely do not see it as a form of internalized homophobia or yet another reason for gay men to feel guilt and shame about who we are. We are men who are attracted sexually to other men, and some of those men may just be our straights buds. I'm not saying you have to make a move on everyone you're attracted to. But, coming onto a straight guy does happen. If you do this, you need to be discreet and discerning in the process and be willing to take "No" for an answer. Of course, that is true of any sexual come-on between any two people.
It's nice to see something intelligent being said in the online gay world. Nice, thoughtful responses, too.
I don't see this sort of thing often enough.
Any chance of there ever being a chatroom on this site?
Then there are the bottom guys who love the sex complete with strong language but then they run off to the tea lounge with their female friends where they talk about how men are just soooo crude - LOL
I have a lot of straight friends, but I much prefer sex with straight guys. To put it succinctly, if you suck a straight guy off, they don't act like they did you a favor.
My best friend in the world is a straight guy-and not ever once have we had or even thought of having sex with one another. I'm not into straight guys and he's confident in his heterosexuality -and I think THAT more than anything is why we are such great friends. We talk about sex and sexuality very easily and openly without hangups. we have no agenda with one another other than being great friends.
Frankly I am glad I have never had sex with a straight guy. I neither see the point or the need when there are so many great gay guys who aren't busy hiding/lying/on the down low/self-hating/confused/etc. If 1% of the stories I hear about gay men having sex with straight guys are true then it sounds like a bunch of boring, emotionally-detached, objectified sex with someone who calls you fag on the street afterward. what's the point?
Have only been swatted by gay guys so wouldn't know if their is any trouble with straights for sure.
At some point in your life, old-style, HS-type of friendships tend to disappear. You have got your career ahead of you, you have got your mortgage, work, maybe a side job and yeah, you also want to get laid, regardless of your sexual orientation.
Under such circumstances sex tends to creep up into all sorts of friendships. This does not go on to say that you have sex with all of your friends. But a degree of sexual attraction is simply there. It is a simple necessity of modern living.
By that same token, the rigid barriers, largely culturally imposed, tend to give way to a more fluid understanding of sexuality. No doubt, a large number of str8 guys are determined to stay that way for whatever their reason(s) may be. Yet, an ever growing number of men sees that having sex with other men IS an option. Having m2m sex is actually turning out to be far less stigmatized than living a fully-fledged gay life. This is where the "what happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas" and all of its numerous varieties come into play.
Gay men tend to spend an inordinate amount of time wondering if this other attractive guy may be gay, bi, or strictly str8. In reality, this has become a sheer waste of time. The key question is, "Is this guy interested in having sex with me?" Many gay men tend to forget that being gay does not automatically mean that any other gay males will have sex with them just because they are gay and available. The matter of sexual attraction on indivual basis is the key factor here.
I strongly believe that gay men have no additional responsibility for their actions when it comes to m2m attraction. A grown up guy is a grown up guy. He is solely responsible for his actions. If he accepts the advances of other men, it is entirely up to him to live with his decision.
SC
Great stuff!! What I don't understand is, we are gay, we definitely see both sides of the picture, so why is it that when a queen comes near us (90% of us), we are totally grossed out (at least I am).
I believe in to each his own, but it just seems to me that every man who has ever watched coverage of a gay event on the television, only sees ranting, scantily clad (if at all) men on floats, dancing around amd making sure everyone sees their nail polish. I am totally gay, but my masculinity comes first. But you never see butch guys in these episodes, or do you ever see a butch guy and a queen having "man" sex. It's like it is forbidden.
I think alot of us are still so afraid of being pinned as "gay". WE ARE just regular men who happen to enjoy sex with regular men. Years ago, I was engaged to be married to a wonderful woman, we had fantastic sex (I will never forget the feeling of vaginal intercourse, or oral sex......it was still about wanting to make your partner feel good). I broke it off, because I didn't want to end up a 50 year old GAY guy, whose wife blames herself, and who has to work harder at making his family understand (it happened to a neighbor just as I was coming up on nineteen). I also couldn't see putting that on my girlfriend.
I sincerely believe that ALL men are bisexual. If you ask a man if he ever had thoughts of being with another man, and he says no, I believe he is a bald faced liar. Now, whether or not he makes a move to find out what it's like, or locks it way down inside, is the difference. I would hope that my son (if I had one), would put masculinity to the wind and at least try. I think it is a right of passage to the American male adolescent. Either they just can't bring themselves to do it and push all that emotion deep, deep down (which ultimately comes out another way), or they try it, decide whether they like it and play both sides, maybe for awhile, but then it ends. Sometimes with just one guy and starts with another.
But wht I have NEVER seen, is a very masculine man with a very feminine man. I believe that if you have been brought up to make your own decisions, you will try and decide for yourself. I pity the guy that doesn't explore it.
Hey man,
There's food for thought along these lines in the book Androphilia. I recommend it. Cheers!
You should look at the Hispanic gay community. It's very common for Hispanic couples to be one masculine and one feminine. Although generally speaking men are attracted to men that are similar to themselves physically and in common interest.
That being said, I always fall back to traditional psychological thought that states, "Attraction is subjective, it can't be analyzed."
To each his own.
Different strokes for different folks. One mans bliss is another's reason to go on a crusade against that very thing that brings bliss to others and so it goes for sure. To accept a single way of how things must be would be a dictatorship in which case the dictator's fall soon enough thank gawd.
Very interesting and insightful. The only problem I have with this blog is the statement, "Men, despite their sexual preference love a conquest. It’s just how we’re built."
I believe homosexuality to be a genetic anomaly like red hair, green eyes or male pattern baldness. It is a sexual orientation not a sexual preference. Preference implies a choice and I believe you're born gay. The only choice is whether to accept it or not.
Just my 2 cents.
My friend, I believe that the choice (to accept our gayness or not) is equally as important as its genesis. I fully agree w/ you about homosexuality being a genetic sexual orientation. However once one has chosen to accept it, normal parlance quite rightly refers to it as a preference as well. As in, "I prefer men sexually and romantically to women. I was born gay, grew up gay, I have accepted it and now clearly state my preference." The tacit understanding here is that my preference is based on my orientation. (Although I accept those who accuse both me and the original poster of splitting semantic hairs since the two terms, taken in context, could be seen as synonymous.)
Semantics aside, I like men because it is my orientation, but furry, masculine men are my preference.
Much like Asians, Latinos and monogamy are your preference.
If guys could simply choose orientation by choice then it would be a lot less trouble to choose to be straight and not be beaten down or attacked by alcoholic and drug addicted straights. It takes a strong sense of self and being naturally gay to march forward no matter what the risk involved even if theirs the risk of loss of ones life in order to not be shoved into a closet.
Exactly my point ShyPup. The people in this country that continue to push for discriminatory legislation against us believe we choose our sexuality and we are all just perverts. When we use the word "preference" we reinforce their ignorant beliefs. They don't care about semantics.
We are indeed 'The World"
A great relief to hear a gay man talk about himself and straight men as men together.